NASCAR, driving fans away

South Carolina MotorSports Racing News www.SCMSRN.com

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November 27, 2009

NASCAR, driving fans away?

I find it interesting, how other people feel about the corporation of NASCAR. I’ve browsed the web and are some of the comments I’ve found. You can let me know how you feel by sending an email to pjm3@scmsrn.com.

Ric_P wrote on 11/27/2009 12:24:12 PM:

I totally understand the view that NASCAR may have inadvertently neglected its Southern fans, however, there is a major transformation in the sport that's taking place that will blend many new fans. Juan Pablo Montoya is rapidly becoming folklore in his native Colombia, and in many ways Colombian nationalistic pride resembles Southern pride. Southerners are bright people & will find this new coffee blend refreshing & long overdue.

amyintn wrote on 11/27/2009 10:08:39 AM:

Times change, and with it, NASCAR has changed. All our wishing and hoping will not bring back the cars, drivers, tracks, and atmosphere of the old days(60s through the mid-90s). The love of racing has been replaced by the love of more and more money. The sponsors want more, the drivers want more, the track owners want more, the businesses around the track want more, and on and on. When greed rears its massive head, you have to know things are going to get worse before they get better-if they ever do. I came to NASCAR in 1992, attended many races, and now I rarely watch a race. too much fluff and not near enough substance.

Being originally from the NC and spending most of my 25 years in the Navy in the Norfolk area. If you live past Richmond, like I have twice in my career. In the Maryland area, they do not cover NASCAR like you do in this area of VA NC SC GA Fla and Ala and the southern region. I say that because all you have to do is read the newspaper, there is nothing, i mean nothing in the newspapers after you pass richmond. It's a Southern Sport and you have taken it from its roots. New Hampshire, all that track is a history or ruining the sports future. Dover and Ponoco have unique racing, because of the tracks and the area's and people go to those because they are within 6 hours from here, or less. The Cookie Cutter tracks have ruined the racing, and the COT or shall I say the IROC Cars that you have them drive do not even look like what is on the highways. The Nationwide cars, that is going to be the series to watch, why? Look at what they are putting on the track. Go back to your ROOTS! Please!

i live in spartanburg sc -i see cotton owens -david pearson almost everyweek-they are what is missing in nascar-we have lost our roots to corporate money-bigger has proven not to be better-when i watch the old races i can spot each driver by make of car-now they all look alike-this year the races suck-who can watch pocono w/o napping -who gives a rat patoot if we race in penn.or kansas city--lets get back to north wilkesboro-the rock-

I've said this before regarding the direction NASCAR has taken over the past several years. When we became hooked in the late 80's, we were big time fans. Back then, we couldn't decide which we liked least; Earnhart for his dirty tactics, Waltrop for his mouth, or Wallace for his arrogance...but when it came down to it, my wife and I always had a great time, and secretly, wished all the drivers well. Today, NASCAR, with it's slick New York marketing, is much akin to the movie "Electric Cowboy" where they drugged up, lit up, and in all respect, lipstick'd up a hog (a good hog)to sell a product. A product by the way that looks best without all the glimmer, lights, and lipstick; in fact, string up some street lights, carve out a 1/4, to 1/2 mile track in the dirt, and turn em loose. Cut back the number of races, elimate the cookie cutters (KS, Chicago, Vegas), find some good dirt ever now and again, and turn em loose. My wife and I have given up our seats at Talladega after 20 years

As the saying goes, you hit the nail on the head. I didn't know anything about Nascar until another Air Force cadet who was in flight training with me, took me to his home on a 3 day pass. He was from Hickory Nc. This was the late 60's, went to a race at Hickory and I was hooked on Nascar. After my tour in the service was over from the mid 70's on I would fly 10 to 12 guys to races every year. We flew to Darlington, Atanta, Rockingham, Dega, Daytona, Michigan, but mostly to Charlotte. Now only 4 of us go and I'm in the cabin with the rest of the 150 or so passengers. I still have 4 seats on the start/finish line in row 36 at charlotte, but this past Oct may have been my last race. What I remember most at Charlotte was Petty and Pearson side by side for 15 or 20 laps. You could tell a Dodge from a Merc, and so what if they were 20 mph or so slower, sitting in the stands you can't tell the speed difference. I think Nascar has lost it.

Been saying this for years. Get rid of Brian Frantz, and all of his cronnies and people in that know and like racing. Dale E. said it years ago when they brought out the restrictor plate,,if you are affraid to go fast and race then stay home.

db been saying that too for awhile but the little boy in grandpas chair will never fix all the mistakes made and the sport will change to the point where it's completely gone from what it was meant to be

Excellent article. I don't think I've read, or heard, anyone in the media articulate what I've been thinking for some time the way this writer does in the above article.
NASCAR gained popularity with fans, mostly in the Southeast, due to great door-to-door short track racing. Tracks like North Wilkesboro and Rockingham made the sport what it WAS when people first started following the series. It is a shame that those places didn't offer enough ticket revenue to remain a part of the sport.
NASCAR needs someone calling the shots who understands what draws fans to the sport and can resist the temptation to try short term fixes. The points system was changed, a playoff system put in place, a new car debuted, double file restarts, etc. None of that will ever replace short track beatin' and bangin' for excitement.

Boy that's the truth. I'll be the first to say we have to keep drivers safe but there's got to be a way to do that and keep actual racing also. I've even stopped recording the races. Use to if I had to be gone I'd set the vcr and watch it as soon as I got home. No more; boy do I miss real racing.

The problem for us old timers is that we have seen REAL RACING ( racing back to the yellow, no pit road speed limits, drivers with a helmet & a pair of goggles on, concrete walls,...). Racing was a dangerous business and we had respect for the men (drivers & pit crewman) that would get out an take that risk eac

Nascar has gone the way of our politicians and that is to be politically correct, giving up what made them what they were 10 or 15 years ago. Today, pre-race concerts feature hard rock, what happened to the good old country music that accompanied NASCAR's up-bringing. Races in California and west of the Mississippi are staged for the liberals who can't see the forrest for the trees. The only thing that the COT has done for NASCAR is to save the life of the driver, which was evident again with Ryan Newman's crash at Talladega. By far the COT is definitely a safer vehicle to drive, but at the same time it creates for a boring race. I have watched NASCAR for the last 20 or so years and now I find myself recording the races on TV so I can fast forward thru most all of the race and all of the commercials.

That's why I come here to get my NASCAR news (the few times there is any news). You guys keep it real. It seems like the guys as NASCAR.com along with France and Helton are delusional.

I live in Greensboro, grew up in Martinsville and went to my first race when our high school band played the National Anthem back in 1990. I've been a fan since, up until about 2-3 years ago.

I have checked out, turned off the lights, and left the building. However you want to put it, I'm finished with NASCAR. This is from someone who has about 15 or so die cast cars (no COTs) and used to go to about 4-5 races a year. But, if you list to France and others, it�s all about the economy. Many corporations don't exist today because CEO's we bull-headed and didn't want to change. I can see that happening to NASCAR.

I believe the problem is that there is nothing stock car about nascar. Nascar was fun when you could watch a race on Sunday and go buy the 'same' car on Monday. Heck, they're not even 'cars'. A tube with a cookie cutter shell. Fans could relate to T-birds, superbirds, grad prix, and such. Stock cars? How many carburated cars are made now? None. How many Fusions with rear wheel drive and a v8 can you buy? How many Cambry's are at the local race track? Nascar is just like the government, regulate everything. Maybe if things were back to the best car, the best driver, and the best mechanic wins, Nascar would mean something again.

NASCAR won't change unless companies money goes away. The political correctness and not wanting to stir the pot comes from corporate $$ In the "godd ole days" These drivers raced their cars on Sunday and probably went to work the next day. Today's drivers know if they act out then their gravy train can come to an end. I have no idea the answer to this, but how many of these gus would be racing if they weren't making great money for it? The genie is out of the bottle, we are not going back to lively personalities, we are not going to see great racing until all of the big money leaves and it will be reborn by someone other than BF. I will admit Homestead was pretty good to watch but by and large the racing with the COT was not very compelling for this year.

Have a nice day:)

Hey Colby! are you any kin to a former midget driver at Ascot Park in Torrance, CA. I remember watching Colby Scroggins run the 1/4 mile in an old 110 offy back in the 60s

THERE HAVE BEEN LEGENDS AND OTHER VERY WELL KNOWN,LOVED DRIVERS IN THE SO CALLED RECENT PAST , DALE , ELLIOTT, DAVEY , RUSTY AND OTHERS THAT ARE KNOW LONGER OUT THERE ..THIS ALONG WITH THE VERY VALID POINTS YOU MADE AND THE NEW BUNCH OF YOUNG DRIVERS THAT FOR WHAREVER THE REASON HAVE YET TO HAVE THE SAME IMPACT AS THE GUYS MENTIONED ALONG WITH OTHERS ON BOTH OLD AND NEW FANS ..

I like the list method.

Reasons I have lost interest in NASCAR(and I actually like Jimmie)
1. Lucky Dog
2. Bruton Smith and his cookie-cutter track company
3. Brian France and corporate butt-kissing
4. Mike Helton/Robin Pemberton and the inconsistent rules enforcement
5. Announcers like Rusty Wallace and Brad Daugherty
6. Does anyone really ever know when the race is coming on? I swear sometimes I expect them to just race on a Tuesday night to get a good TV slot.

Here are the reasons I have lost interest in Nascar;
1- Boring
2- No Petty on the track
3- Digger
4- Hollywood Hotel
5- Larry Mac
6- Pre Race Shows

Make it more about the racing!!!!

As long as you have bullies like Bruton Smith throwing their weight around, and he has a lot, NASCAR is going to continue to decline. Everyone seems to blame France, but in the South, Bruton is the single worst thing to happen to racing in the last 10 years.

He is a fat, slob that thinks the $1000.00 glasses make him look cool, when in fact he just looks like a overweight baby that throws his weight around when he does not get his way.

One highlight, his net worth is a whole lot less today than 3 years ago and it's droping each and every day which means he still has the weight to toss around, but a lot less cash to keep it in the air.

Well said, especially the last couple of paragraphs. I hadn't thought about that but you are right, there is less casual discussion in Charlotte about NASCAR than there used to be.

Tom's article and every comment offered here represents a valid voice NASCAR (e.g. the France family, esp. Brian) is choosing to ignore. NASCAR has an "answer" for every fan objection, and they choose to listen only to themselves, to those they hire, and to those who bring the "big" money (as opposed to the over-inflated price of one ticket). When Bill France Sr. & Sr., and pioneers like Richard Petty and even Dale Earnhardt, talked about listening to the fans first, they meant it. Today's NASCAR just dredges up lip-service quotes from the past as PR fodder, when in fact they are lying through their collective teeth. They have chosen not to care about the fans, and now the fans are returning the favor. There's no cure for stupid, nor for a leader's lack of character.

It is about time someone told the truth .The good old boys abd gals have left the building . Also the invite to have Toyota to race has stunk up the raceing . look at how many on the air track color reporters and anchor people have Toyota teams ?Most of them. You can say what you want but Toyota put the money in the right places and bought out the sport .I know my self I have not been to a race and I went to 3 or 4 a year ,have not been back.

Just maybe NASCAR has started back by standardizing the start times for 2010. But The Chase is a joke. At first, I viewed it as a way to get Junior closer to Gordon and the other leaders. When it expanded to 12, I viewed it as a way to get Jr. in the Chase at all. Now, it's run its course as an experiment and should be scrapped. You sure can't compare records from another era to now. Regarding the COT, NASCAR underestimated how much Fans enjoyed arguing and complainig about "their" brand being better or worse than "your" brand. Easy fix ... take the body off of a real car and put it over a racing chassis and roll cage. The only modifications should be for safety. And take the spoilers/wings off. It's not a racer's God-given right to hold the pedal to the floor in every corner. The best races are the ones where the driver has to lift every now and then --- like Richmond, Bristol, etc. Plus, you would save on engine development because too much horsepower would be a bad thing.

I grew up in a racing family in Indiana. Went to my first Cup race at Charlotte in 1973 to see Petty, Yarborough, the Allison's, etc. That was back when a Ford looked like a Ford, and a Chevy looked like a Chevy, and a Toyota looked like a golf cart. With all of the rules changes to button up the field, we've lost all the manufacturer's identity. Remember the old adage "win on Sunday, sell on Monday"? Completey gone now. The light at the end of the tunnel might be the new Busch car (take a hike Nationwide). I would still like to see them stripped down more, though.

Followed this before Winston Cup to Sprint Cup for most of my 52 Years. The Have teams, by that I mean teams that have the best setups which allows the Racer to get the most speed onto the track, will win and dominate no matter what the current rules are. When traditions are stepped over for progress you have to pick your steps very carefully. There was some pretty good racing at the smaller tracks that allowed some racing rubbing that where stepped over for progress. To me the best racing is where the cars will slide around and tires fall off after a few laps that will allow the speed of the car to be controlled by the racer. Biggest thing that will stop me from watching a race is all of those cautions that come out any time there is a large lead for something that has been on the track for many laps. Because of the big money in Sprint Cup now they have to race at venues that have all the amenities to entertain the sponsors so in came all the new tracks that possessed great amenitie

Bruton "I'll take my track and move where I want to" Smith and Brian France have been the driving forces behind the drop in NASCAR. Smith was dumb enough to push out Humpy Wheeler, which should prove his insanity. Both are so busy trying to make sure the marketing rights bring in the dollars that they have forgotten the fans. Winston Cup to Nextel Cup to Sprint Cup. Busch Series to Nationwide Series. Craftsman Truck Series to Camping World Truck Series. DOES ANYONE EVEN REMEMBER THAT SERIES THEY ARE WATCHING THIS WEEK? The drivers have become secondary, the fans have become a periphary concern...but the almight $$$ rules the roost.

Brian France has ruined Nascar with the following;
COT
Toyota
Chase
Lucky Dog
Just to name a few reasons

North Wilkesboro, Rockingham, Darlington.....three prime examples of what is missing in NASCAR these days. The old days of local tracks for blue-collar race fans have gone and been replaced by luxury boxes and multi-million dollar sponsorships. The real fans can't afford to attend a race, and most don't want to show up on a Saturday night or Sunday at 6pm to see one. NASCAR forgot that a 1pm race in the southeast was what paid the bills. Add to that the fact that 50% of the crowd has pledged all allegiances to a guy who has been a career 2nd tier driver, and you can see why the ratings have dropped considerably.

And finishing up since I ran out of room ... I don't think there's any going back with the drivers either. With a few exceptions, a lot of these guys are just as faceless and interchangeable as pro golfers or tennis players. And they are multi-million-dollar businessmen, just like other pro athletes. I'm not saying that they don't try hard and compete when they're racing, but racing is just one part of most of those guys' empire. There is very little frame of reference between them and middle and lower class Southerners who are the fan base that made this sport what it was at its peak.

In a former life, I covered NASCAR as a media member and was around during the leadup to the big push to go beyond the South and go national. The marketing folks who did this had the idea that NASCAR would become a major sports league. I'm talking a major sports league equivalent to the NFL, Major League Baseball, the NBA and the NFL. Not just the top racing series, but a major sports league. I heard that literally from some of the horses' mouths. I thought they were loony then and I've been proved right. There was never any chance of NASCAR being a major sports league like the NFL, there never will be any chance of NASCAR being a major sports league like the NFL. The big growth spurt had no real foundation, as has been cited here. It was built on sand. It was a pipe dream. And, to use another cliche, the chickens are coming home to roost. The thing is, IMHO the sport has been so changed that I don't think there is any going back.

Tom you're pretty much dead on. But at least as important as the move to grow beyond the south, the chase has really aggravated the old time fans. Its the stats that help blend the eras together, and now none of the history matters. I mean, don't get me wrong, JJ is awesome. But his four championships can't be compared to the champions from before. And vdeputy; its not rose colored glasses. As a short time fan, you would have no idea. Sure there are a lot of things that are better today, but they do not erase the blatant disrespect for the fans from BRIAN FRANCE.

When Bruton Smith & company stole the North Wilkesboro track from wealthy locals a festering wound created for NASCAR. That would could eventually kill the sport. North Wilkesboro is where the sport started and was the soul of the sport. Bruton and manipulated a widow to steal the track and its race dates from very wealthy Lowe's & Holly Farms heirs that would have taken better care of the sport. The track dates were moved to poorly designed dangerous tracks in cities with bandwagon fans. The hard core fans in the southeast had their souls torn out and the bandwagon fans in other places are moving on to the next bandwagon. Drive to North Wilkesboro and you can see the old speedway rotting. Bruton & partners would not even let it be used as a practice track. They will not dismantle it either. Just let it rot as a monument to arrogance and stupidity.

CocoaTom is crazy. You say NASCAR is boring then say you switch to watching the most boring racing on the planet which is F1, ROFL. Now those are boring races, except for the first 10 laps.

I agree with most of what Tom says, except the COT thing. When are people gonna get it out of their head that the racing changed when they brought in the new car? Well before they brought in the new car drivers were complaining about clean air and ya know what? Most of the time it's nonsense anyway. When you're 3 or 4 seconds behind the leader, you've got just as much clean air as he does. Not to mention that alot of the tracks are multiple grooves. If he's running low and you're running high, you ARE in clean air. They even whine about it at Bristol and Martinsville, where any crew chief will tell you that mechanical grip, not aero grip, is the premium. The good old days: where victory margins were in laps instead of seconds. Get real people.

My thoughts on NASCAR. I AM an older female Democrat (!) and I love NASCAR. I am a relatively new fan so to me it is all fresh and bright. I don't know anything but the Chase, the COT, today's drivers. I think for some people on here, it is about their past and looking back with rose-colored glasses. You remember things you did with your dad when you were small as the height of perfection. Or being young and going to the races with friends. But it really isn't NASCAR that's changed so much, it is you. New interests, new priorities. The present day can't compare.

I am "forty-something" and there are two reasons why I don't follow NASCAR like I used to -- the new tracks (whether or not in the Southeast) all look the same, and the television coverage during the first half of the season is about "Ole DW,"Larry Mac," and Jeff Hammond; it has very little to do with the racing. By the time the July 4 race at Daytona comes around, I have lost interest.

Quite simply, Brian France, by coddling the corporate culture, took away everything that made the sport popular to the fans. Now no one is happy, fans are leaving, and sponsorship is hard to find. You can blame the economy, but if you have a good product it helps to offset things. NASCAR no longer has a good product. Thanks Brian, good job! Can someone please fire this goon?

It does not help that the dominant race car driver (Jimmie Johnson) is not very good at being a celebrity, nor that the biggest celebrity in NASCAR (Dale, Jr.) is not very good at racing. It does not help that the collapse of the US auto industry has deflated brand identity for the fans. It does not help that the collapsed economy has affected NASCAR’s base, working people, far more than fans of other sports. And, although we hate to admit it, it probably does not help that safer cars have taken away some of the suspense.

It would help, on the other hand, to keep some perspective. The so-called sparse attendance at any of the 150,000+ facilities would overflow Rockingham or North Wilkesboro. The fan base today still far exceeds what it was “back in the day,” before NASCAR was on nationwide TV. The crowds at Bristol when I was growing up would fit into Time Warner Arena.

I for one continue to enjoy my NASCAR.

...I don't think the France family knows how to run a business...(although they do seem to know how to reward family members with high paying jobs)...ISCA has a P/E of 41 and pay 0.5% dividend...for the last three years their numbers have been bad....their chart is pretty ugly:
http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=isca&sid=0&o_symb=isca&freq=2&time=10&x=25&y=20

I don't agree with you often, Tom, but you're spot on here. I got into racing about 16 years ago. I still think that Nascar was still a pure southern sport at that point. I used to travel to every Rockingham race myself because it was a blast. Oh well. Nascar has lost the identity that made it popular in the first place.

Nascar forgot me. I am 34 years old.I am the guy whose father took him to races at Martinsville,Rockingham,Darlington and other tracks in the south. We would go to Sat night races at South Boston or Orange Co and have a great time. I went to Daytona and watched Bobby Allision win the Fire Cracker 400 and watched Petty, Waltrip and Allison. I know whom the Flock's are, Curtis Turner and Fireball Roberts. My father wasn't highly educated but did alright for himself. He provided me with a college education and I now make a six figure income. I used to take friends to those same local tracks. I enjoyed explaining the history of Nascar and the subtles of racing such as "go slow to go fast." I enjoyed the rivialries and the hard racing. All of that is gone. It's engineers, corporate sponsers and letting a guy go. Too many "racers" complain about constraints of Nascar while also complaining about guys racing them hard. Nascar forgot about me and I was here the whole time.

I'm with you Tom. They've taken all the fun and excitement out of NASCAR and even though I agree Jimmie Johnson has a "courteous corporate image", that's part of the problem. NASCAR is sanitized enough to appeal to female democrats who are members of Westchester Country Club. The only problem is, they don't want it. Watch out for PBR (Prof Bull Riding). The bull of tomorrow just keeps getting harder to ride, not aerodynamic. The personalities may not be polished corporate spokespeople, but they never were Junior Johnson either. I think that the cowboys of the PBR are the Dale Earnhardt SRS of tomorrow.

I totally agree with you, Tom. NASCAR is boring boring boring--well, except for Talladega and Daytona. I'm on the edge of my seat for those races. But the rest are just so ho-hum. I am more interested in Formula One these days, and they can thank NASCAR for that.

I think you are right. I never missed a race at Texas, untill the first race with the COT, and I haven't been to a cup race since. We have been to the truck and nationwide races. Brian France, Mike Helton, and Robin Pemberton keep repeatedly saying the competetion is the best its been in years, its just the economy hurting the sport, blah blah blah. They may be able to make somewhat of a case for the seats being empty due to the economy, but that don't wash with the tv ratings. Boring races, rediculous rules, the COT- short for POS, not to mention no testing allowed. That is like telling an NFL team they arent allowed to practice before games. How good would that work?? Fance and Nascar need to quit living in lala land and get real. Listen to the fans. They tell the drivers what to say and not to say, but they don't control the fans, they just ignore them.

Word! Jimmie isn't the problem, his making history this week was one of the brightest spots in Nascar in YEARS. One of the rare positive things to happen to this sport lately.

I do think your article is true, but From my point of view and 20 of my closest friends, we quit going to the races because they have flooded the races with rice burners. I will not spend my money to go see them win. Look at indy car it went by the wayside when chevy and ford pulled out. I live within 45 minutes of Texas Motor Speedway, I went to the ground breaking I had season tickets up until 2005, All of my friends did whether they rooted for dodges, or fords or chevies. That was the fun for bragging rights. I watched the qualifying at talledega you would see one ford then 5 rice burners the a chevy and 6 toyotas then maybe a dodge then three more toyotas then most of the go or go homers were toyotas. it is almost as bad in nationwide and it will be in cup soon. They will spend all the money to try to be on top, we are sick of them..I know I know people say they are made in americia but the money goes back to them over there in Japan. one day they will all be toyotas and no fans

The problem is that the races have turned into parade laps. When you have 10 to 15 second intervals between the 1st. and 10th. place car that's not racing. When you won't allow them to bump fenders when passing that's not racing. When the first place car no matter who it is can pull away from the field due to clean air something needs to be done that's not racing. BORING is what it is.